The Unconventional Growth Playbook: Europe, SMBs, and Cyber Insurance – Christian Werling, CRO, Eye Security

Are you wondering how to leverage unconventional go-to-market strategies to accelerate growth in cybersecurity? Curious about integrating cyber insurance into your offer to stand out in a crowded landscape? This episode provides answers by spotlighting a company bucking the traditional playbook—and winning.

In this conversation we discuss:
👉 Targeting SMBs in Europe by simplifying security products and services and tailoring to unique buyer needs
👉 Building a true partner-first approach with IT service providers and insurance brokers to create trusted channels
👉 Bundling cyber insurance and cybersecurity to remove buying friction and drive faster sales cycles

About our guest:
Christian Werling is the Chief Revenue Officer at Eye Security, one of today's fastest-growing cybersecurity companies. Christian brings extensive experience in sales leadership and a sharp focus on innovation in go-to-market models and partnership strategies.

Summary
If you want to rethink your sales tactics and learn how Eye Security became a top-15 fastest-growing cybersecurity company by targeting SMBs in Europe, this is a must-listen episode. Discover how partnering with insurance brokers, simplifying product onboarding, and bundling cyber insurance with cybersecurity can help your company scale faster and differentiate in any market.

Connect and learn more:

• Christian Werling on LinkedIn
• Eye Security website: https://www.eye.security

Transcript

Andrew Monaghan:
I get to talk to quite a few sales leaders and CEOs on this podcast and also in my consulting and trading business as well. And there's definitely a pattern there. Right. We sell to enterprises at the top of the mid market, mostly in North America. That's the primary market. And the sales team sell direct to the end user. And often there's some sort of role for the traditional reseller channel, the security resell channel there as well. And for many companies, this whole model works well.

Andrew Monaghan:
Right. There's many companies doing very well or pretty well just by doing that. But there are other ways to grow a cybersecurity company, which is why I invited Christian Werling, the CRO at Eye Security. That's Eye Security. The chat in this episode, Eye Security is doing the exact opposite to those three things that I just mentioned. They're not selling to enterprises or the mid market, they're not in North America, and they don't sell through just the usual direct or resale channels that we're used to. So stay tuned to learn about what's working for AI. And it's working well.

Andrew Monaghan:
They're one of the top 15 fastest growing cybersecurity companies right now. So stay tuned. And I'm Andrew Monaghan and this is the Cybersecurity Go to Market podcast. All right, well, Christian, welcome to the Cyber Go to Market talk podcast. I'm looking forward to this episode. How are you doing today?

Christian Werling:
Thank you. Quite well. A little bit nervous, surprisingly, because obviously I'm talking a lot in front of other people, but recording the session is always kind of exciting. Thanks for asking.

Andrew Monaghan:
Yes, we're going to have some fun. Yeah. And so here's why we're having this conversation. So I did some research back in, I think it was April, May of this year and recording this in July of 2025. And I was looking for one of the fastest growing Covid baby cybersecurity companies. So those founded 2020 and beyond. And for fastest drawing, I took Headcount as a proxy. It's not ideal.

Andrew Monaghan:
Right. But it's not a terrible way to look at it. And as I went through the list, I put up 15 fastest and number and of course number one was Wiz. No huge surprise there. But the number ninth on the list was this company called Isecurity, which I wasn't familiar with. So I started digging around and there's some things that I is doing that stood out to me and this is why I'm interested in this conversation. You're up To I believe, according to LinkedIn anyway, around about 250 employees. Now.

Andrew Monaghan:
Does that sound about right?

Christian Werling:
Yep. Yep, sounds about right. That's correct.

Andrew Monaghan:
Okay, so, you know, when I look at the usual path for the other companies, most of the other companies in the top 15, and the usual path for cybersecurity companies, what they usually do is they build something to sell into enterprises. They do it predominantly in North America to get going, and they have a simple tried and tested route to market. That is the usual kind of way of doing this. And in fact, I talked to founders, early stage sales leaders about these things quite a bit. Right. And then I looked at Eye Security and what I saw from the other side looking in, you're selling to SMBs, not enterprises, you're doing it in Europe, not in North America. And your route to market or one of your routes to market is around cyber insurance through brokers and the cyber insurance companies. And I look, well, that's not normal.

Andrew Monaghan:
There must be some interesting stories and some interesting things to learn about the journey that you've been on at Eye Security in these three areas.

Christian Werling:
Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Monaghan:
So let's look at the first one, Christian. So the idea that you're selling into SMBs in Europe, let's say. Right. So the European angle is obviously one, the SMB is another. What does Eye Security do that says that that's the right way to go about targeting your business?

Christian Werling:
The whole purpose of the company when it was founded and the whole idea was to make the SMB space a safer place. Because the background and the idea behind Eye Security is kind of unique. So our CEO and one of the three founders was former head of the Dutch Intelligence service and he and the other co founders that were also involved within that group when something happened in the Netherlands, but also in Europe and within the eu, they were sometimes involved into the attacks, especially when that was an organized attack by another country, by another intelligence service, something like that. And what they have realized is that every time a big company is like a victim, they can protect themselves quite well because they do have the money for state of the art technology, but they also have the reputation, the branding and the money to attract the right talent so they could protect themselves. But if it's like a small or medium sized business, they were sitting down quite often with the founders of these companies that inherited the business from their fathers or grandfathers or third or fourth generation and then overnight they went bankrupt because a small and medium sized business cannot afford all the money for all the technology. And the whole stack, that's one thing. But technology is available nowadays, but they cannot run it themselves. And that was the idea.

Christian Werling:
Why is there no company that is offering small companies and medium sized businesses to outsource their cybersecurity concerns to them and take care about them, but at the same point in time make it affordable. So the whole technology and the whole approach, the whole architecture and the go to market was built to approach SMBs first and not the other way around.

Andrew Monaghan:
Part of the complexity of SMBs is the product, right? You got to make it simple, as you say, right? There's a talent issue there. You're not going to hire the 10 year cyber veteran and a team of them to to run your stuff. So there must be a pressure on the product to be how simple can we make it for the person who's assigned it at the SMB, right? If it might be their main job or part of their job, how do they go about doing that? What other complications are there as you're looking at the SMB market?

Christian Werling:
I mean there are two things. One thing for sure is the availability of resources. You need to make it really simple to to onboard the clients. So on average it takes us like within four hours. We have 80% of customer life after signature. If they want to.

Andrew Monaghan:
Four hours.

Christian Werling:
Four hours, yes. If it is a bigger client, it's even quicker in most cases because they have software automation tools for rolling out the software. If it's really like a very small business that is that is not set up very professional in the IT department, it can take longer. That depends. But that's one crucial aspect. The other aspect is that you are totally right ahead of it. At a small or medium sized business is in only rare occasions is a cyber security expert because they need to take care of the car chargers, the wall chargers, about ordering laptops, printers, everything like that. And you cannot expect them being an expert for cybersecurity.

Christian Werling:
That means that you also need to explain it very easy and digestible to them. But the other thing is for most of their decisions within such complex topics, they will always involve their IT supplier, the MSP organization, an IT reseller, a solution provider, because they are their trusted advisor. So you need to build the company from the first moment, partner first, because otherwise we won't get that business. Because even if your product is 50% better than the competition, and it's potentially only at 50% of the price of the competition in many cases, otherwise an SMB company would go for the solution that the IT provider, their solution Provider is offering because they're afraid about the next animal in the zoo because the effort is just too high. They can, they can't afford it to make some wrong decisions here. So that's the reason why you need to build a partner first because they are trusting them a lot. That's important.

Andrew Monaghan:
Just going back to that Christian four hours after things are up and running, I mean I think thinking about some of my clients, you know, I'm thinking more like four weeks or eight weeks or 12 weeks because there's things that have to be set up, the things that have to be implemented a certain way for that, for that client. Um, I'm wondering what the secret to, to the four hour window is. What have you learned about what you could, what decisions you can make ahead of time that you simply, you simplify things down and what things that you have to go no, we have to actually work it through with them on, on this area. Yeah.

Christian Werling:
I don't know whether you know the book focus focusing on one thing only. It's like applying Pareto but to the extreme. So you think about what are the 20% of tools and technologies you might want to use to achieve 95, 99% of security. But then you even strip it down, you look at the technology again and then you decide what are the 1, 2, 3 key things that will still justify and accomplish a certain level of security and strip it down. There's always the one thing that a customer's asking for. You could add this and this and this and this and the feature list of some of the vendors is just huge. But that's for sure adding complexity. So that's I think the reason because we are quite consequent with making that decision.

Christian Werling:
Although it might sound promising, adding the next feature and winning the next feature battle in the field out there. We are always trying to keep it as simple as possible to make sure that we can keep a, the onboarding as light as I just mentioned, but also the maintenance. Because one thing for an SMB company is a one time project because there are no resources normally available and for them it's also expensive to pay their IT supplier for that. But then the other thing is the maintenance which is always underestimated because there are also solution providers out there that sell like a managed service. But at the end if that solution is not including the incident remediation and the incident response, the client is still ending up with looking at alerts, jumping on calls with the vendors to decide was it a truth alert, was it a false alert? There's so much noise. And at the end they are spending like 10, 15, 20 hours a month on that. And that's also important to keep it as low as possible. So if the clients does not want to be involved in all the things, we will only involve them in the real crucial alerts where we do expect a higher level of an incident, a high level of an attack, and they will get noticed.

Christian Werling:
In most cases, we even do not reach out to them before we react because otherwise it might be too late. And that means that on average, a customer is not investing more than 30, 60 minutes per month in maintaining the solution for us. For sure, that's depending on how have they set it up with their IT suppliers. Because yes, when we find vulnerabilities, the customer needs to patch the solutions. They need to change settings and change stuff. The customers, most customers outsource it to the MSP partners to the solution providers, and then the effort is really as limited as I just mentioned.

Andrew Monaghan:
All right, Christian, let's learn a little bit more about you as a person. Believe it or not, I've got 449 questions listed out here. The good news is I don't ask you 49 questions. I just ask you three. And I have this super advanced random number generator. It uses all sorts of advanced randomizers in there. And it's so important I protect it with encryption to make sure no one can steal it. And I'm going to spin this wheel and see which numbers we get.

Andrew Monaghan:
You ready to go?

Christian Werling:
Yep, let's go for it.

Andrew Monaghan:
All right, now spin the wheel. All right, we got number nine. Christian, how did you first make money as a kid?

Christian Werling:
Oh, that's a good one. Like, money was always important to me because I grew up in a blue collar worker family, so I knew the value of money. So I started selling cherries. I think it was seven or eight. So I picked the cherries for sure from the neighbor's tree and I sold it in the neighborhood, even back to the one neighbor. Then I did some selling of fashion at the clothes store. And once I found out that with software development you can also make some money, I think I was 14 then I started to earn some money with software development.

Andrew Monaghan:
So you took the neighbor's cherries and then sold them cherries?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, I think somehow, yeah. Yep, to a certain extent.

Andrew Monaghan:
That's awesome. All right, let's spin the wheel again. Number 32, what's an embarrassing or memorable moment in your sales career there?

Christian Werling:
Two things I would say the most embarrassing. One was the first time when customers fell asleep during the meeting. I can still remember that late evening overheated meeting room 25 participants. And even during the round of introduction already the first five people really literally fell asleep. So before I even started to introduce myself. So then I was sure, you know, it's not only me, but it's perhaps the weather and the circumstances that was kind of awkward. Can still recall that quite detailed.

Andrew Monaghan:
But you said it was in the evening though, right?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, yeah, it was evening. And you know, in Germany people and I think most people recognize I'm German because of my spatzenegger accent. But you know, people like to have a big schnitzel with french fries or two schnitzels even for lunch. And we call it a schnitzel coma after lunch set. So people fell asleep. That's not too embarrassing, that correct and positive moment. I would say it's every time when somebody in my team is really developing and growing over their limits, like really developing into the next step of their career. Both from a business but also from a personal perspective.

Christian Werling:
I think that's very fulfilling and that's fortunately happening quite often.

Andrew Monaghan:
That's great. All right, let's spin the wheel one last time.

Christian Werling:
Yep.

Andrew Monaghan:
Number two, what is the story behind you getting your first role in cybersecurity?

Christian Werling:
I think yeah, I started software development really early, like 1988. It was still very small, a kid like 7 years old. And I studied computer science so I was always interested into the technology. And I also tried out several things when the first Internet came up and people were using their first WI fi routers. So I was very curious who's protecting the network and who not. That was my first touch point. But then with Eye Security, I think it's the purpose and the mission of the company that really got me because I truly believe that if you're selling with purpose, and there's also that book about that, that this is really fulfilling for somebody and I truly believe into the mission that we are doing and protecting small companies that would otherwise be struggling a lot with today's cybercriminals. And that got me into that job.

Andrew Monaghan:
So you said before that you designed from the start to be partner friendly, partner, you know, their IT provider, whoever it is. What's an example of what that might mean for that I's done that's been so impressive.

Christian Werling:
I think the most, the most simple example is that we have established our first like or 80, 90% of our deals are nowadays are partner touched. And that means that with all that what we are doing is we are always trying to involve the partner organizations as much as possible. And we have grown that over the time quite heavily. But that also means that from a system architecture perspective and from an onboarding perspective, we always had in mind to have the partner organizations and the ecosystems involved within our onboarding, but also in the maintenance process. And a concrete example is that while rolling out the partner as a PAM system for the partner landscape, from the beginning, we respected from an architecture perspective that we would also integrate our partner suppliers within the onboarding, but also within the support or the maintenance process.

Andrew Monaghan:
Okay. I was thinking about the buying behavior of an SMB. I think enterprises, they'll buy maybe as a result of an audit, they might buy because they've got a new leader coming in and they want to change things up, or they realize they've got some gap in their risk assessments they need to go after. SMBs aren't quite so proactive in my impression anyway. You tell me if I'm wrong. They. They tend to wait till something happens, let's say. Am I right in that perspective?

Christian Werling:
Yes, yes and no. So the most common reasons why they need to do something, or one of the most common reasons is really that the incidents are coming closer. I sometimes compare it to Covid and the vaccination because a lot of people were kind of skeptical and is it a true thing? And is that really happening? And then people in the family, in the neighborhood got infected and they start doing the vaccination as well. And that's also happening in the SMP space quite often because nearly everybody we are talking to that's seriously interested in improving their cybersecurity. They know somebody from their personal environment, but also suppliers or some of their customers that got hacked. That's one reason. Another big reason why a lot of SMBs have decided for us is because they wanted to get a cyber insurance. And sometimes they just wanted to make sure of not running bankrupt for sure to get the risk off out of their balance sheet.

Christian Werling:
But there's pretty often pressure from their customers, like the big OEMs, the big automotive companies, or other companies, as they insist that the suppliers that are providing the services that they do have a cyber insurance. And for cyber insurance companies, it's kind of a challenge for many SMBs, especially in certain industries, transportation and logistics, of getting a cyber insurance policy. And that's one reason why they are then pretty often talking to us, because we are offering the combination of a cyber security product combined with the cyber insurance. And that's one of their motivators to talk to us quite often.

Andrew Monaghan:
All right, you brought up cyber insurance. This is fascinating to me. It's been around for a while now. I don't think it's normal at all though for a provider such as yourself, a vendor, to in some way incorporate cyber insurance into their value prop. Tell us more about how you've done it, what it means and how it affects your go to market motions.

Christian Werling:
Yeah. So first of all, I think we can be kind of proud of our low loss ratio. That means the number of incidents that we do face with clients, but how great our service is, there's never ever 100% guarantee for not being compromised, for not being ransomware, whatever, so you always need that. And that was also clear to the founders because sometimes they have been involved in their former jobs in cases where the companies had like super huge teams of very senior cybersecurity experts. They had top notch technology, but still, if the top cyber criminals want to enter company, it's really, really tough to win that battle. So there's always that risk. And that was clear from the beginning. So from the beginning on, the founders, they have been very close to the broker industry and the insurance industry in the Netherlands.

Christian Werling:
So the trick is that yes, we do have an underwriting company, an underwriting subsidiary, but we more or less exclusively offer our insurance product via the insurance brokers. Because an SMB company, they are only ordering IT and IT solutions via their IT solution provider. And the same goes for insurance. So the relationship of SMB companies with the insurance broker is in most cases super, super stable. The churn rate of that relationship is close to zero. So many companies are working with insurance broker for 15, 20, 25 years. Sometimes even when the son is inheriting that from the father or the daughter from her mother, they're handing over the relationship. They're still collaborating with these ones, so they're trusting them a lot.

Christian Werling:
And that was our reason for bundling with these brokers early on. But because insurance and the broker world is a different one, we also hired people from the broker and insurance industry very, very early at Eye Security as well, making sure that we do speak their language and understand their requirements.

Andrew Monaghan:
And when you get a lead coming in, are they coming in asking for the combined offering or are you going to introduce the idea and it's like another part of the sales motion?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, it's different. It's different. I would say like there's a case that like for an insurance broker, I mean, the easiest example is they do have like really tens of thousands of clients. But the amount of their business clients that have a cyber insurance policy in place is still very low. It's one of the lowest percentages you will find in a, in a business insurance product catalog. So they are all willing to sell the cyber insurance to their clients because a broker have something which is called the duty of care. So they really need to be concerned if a customer is expressing a certain risk. Or they do see that the client does not have a serious cyber protection in place.

Christian Werling:
And they see that because some of these insurance brokers, they do have their own cybersecurity departments with their own cybersecurity experts, then they are obliged, they have a duty also from a legal perspective, to explain that to the client and reach out to them. So if they see something like that, they do want to recommend a solution to their clients that is also easy to understand and simple to implement, because they do know that they do have limitations from their resource perspective. But then the other challenge is that for some of these clients, where they identify a high risk, or they do have clients where the insurance company is changing the rules and they're increasing the hurdles of getting the cyber insurance product, or they're changing the terms and conditions, and then suddenly the existing client is not qualifying anymore for the existing insurance policy. They do need to take care of them. And the easiest way is that the client is improving their cybersecurity with our cybersecurity product. And then we cannot guarantee 100% from a legal perspective. But in nearly every case, the customer will get a cyber insurance policy offered even within 48 hours. And that's for the people that do not know that space that well.

Christian Werling:
Normally getting a cyber insurance policy signed, it can take weeks, months. Months. Months, yes. Customers tell us it can take even years because on average, it's more than 300 questions an SMB company needs to answer for getting a policy. And in our case, it's on average below 20 questions. So it's very simple because insurance companies that we've built these products with, they do know that if a client has our product or service in place, there's a certain level of security. So we could get rid of most of these complexity and most of these questions. This is the reason why it's so easy to get.

Andrew Monaghan:
Now, is that hard, though, to get that combo right, to say, yeah, our stuff does this, you want that? And here's how it all kind of links together.

Christian Werling:
Yes, yes. Because insurance industry is very traditional. Their development cycles are somehow longer than the SaaS. Industry for sure. So you need to earn the respect and the trust of the big insurance companies in the background. There's a tough due diligence on your numbers, on your so called loss ratios. Loss ratios, it's what the insurance company call it. You know, all the money they get, how many incidents all the customers are facing from that policy and how many money they do need to spend on these clients and they're looking at all the details and having a hard audit for being able to build a product like that.

Andrew Monaghan:
And I'm trying to complete the circle here. So you've got clients deploying your software, your service and you're able to collect the data to say this is what's going on. The threats they're seeing, experiencing any losses or incidents that happen. Are you then able to go back to the insurance companies and help them make better decisions about their premiums and their view of risk in this area?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, that is a very good question. I think it's what we will do in the future will be even more innovative for the clients. So currently we use some information that is available for the clients even before they sign the contract. But there are considerations to even use more data across the clients for being able to even decrease the prices for the cybersecurity policy even more. So currently in most cases we are for sure cheaper than the competition from an insurance perspective in most cases. Because in our case we have that special discount because we do have the security layer underlying, but we do want to bring that discount and that different pricing to a completely different level in the future as well.

Andrew Monaghan:
Yeah, I think it's a fascinating area how you can totally reshape how people think about this, right?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Monaghan:
If I'm a, if I'm a salesperson on your team. Right. I'm kind of looking at this when I've got my end user customer, I've got potentially their IT provider. I've also got maybe a broker involved as well. I got to coordinate all this around. I'm sensing complexity. Is that reality or is it just. No, we figured out how to make this into a much more easier, simple transaction because we are going after SMB, Right.

Andrew Monaghan:
You're not. Not million dollar deals, I'm guessing. Right? So you got to figure out the volume side of this.

Christian Werling:
No, that's right, that's right. But our average sales cycles are kind of short in many cases because it's also easy to explain for the customers that really do understand the difference. It's in many cases also kind of an easy decision because currently the combination is unique out there and if that really fits the customer needs, that's easy. But yes, there's a certain level of complexity because you're reselling the cybersecurity solution and on the other hand you need to take care about then the insurance topic. In some cases you can separate these conversations and also the decision cycles because sometimes there's still an insurance policy that's still running for another three or six months. So there's coverage, it will run out, but there's coverage. So you can focus on the cybersecurity solution first and then you can handle the insurance topic. In some cases the insurance is so critical of getting it for, I don't know, a big tender for the military or big tender for, for an automotive company that they urgently needs that then you need to combine it.

Christian Werling:
But that's a great thing that we have partnered so early on with a broker vault because that's their bread and butter business is reselling insurance and if necessary they can also accelerate quite quickly. So in this cases, yes, the complexity is a little bit higher because you have another party in the boat. But it's a standardized process, standardized offering, so it's still handable. And okay.

Andrew Monaghan:
For the part of the business where they come in, like I'd imagine a situation, Christian, where I don't know, it's a thousand employee company, they've got five or six or whatever people in it and one person is the nominated cybersecurity person or as part of their job. Right. And they come to you saying, look, we, we're fed up with our existing provider, we've got an MSSP and it's not working out, we really need to upgrade our security. So it starts off very much a security driven sales cycle.

Christian Werling:
Yeah.

Andrew Monaghan:
You obviously want to differentiate and you want to bring in the kind of wider picture here. I'm wondering as a seller, how you get that team that you're working with beyond just thinking about, well, we need better detection, we need to do faster detection, whatever it might be. And actually thinking about the much more the business side of this because I imagine that's a whole different decision making process of the prospects end. Right?

Christian Werling:
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it is, it is. But nowadays many CFOs are already challenging their security, their IT departments with the topic of cyber insurance as well as the thing is that most IT departments still don't want to elaborate on that topic too much because it's very time consuming. And this question is that we were talking about these 300 questions. The thing is, if you do not answer all of these questions correctly, in theory, an insurance company might face a challenge later on together with you if.

Andrew Monaghan:
You won't pay out, right?

Christian Werling:
Yes. If you signed, you have MFA and you don't have mfa, you signed, you have a mutual backup, you don't. That's a challenge, that's a problem. So the business aspect of the cyber insurance, once you explain it to them how easy it is with us and they don't need to get any headache about it, it's also quite attractive to them to have that topic solved. That is always like the. Is it? Damn.

Andrew Monaghan:
Sort of. Dumclaz.

Christian Werling:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like they're always afraid that it will come down at a certain point in time and they are pretty happy to involve the CFO or the CEO in many businesses, if the organization is a smaller one, to also tackle this topic. It's pretty rare that you cannot convince a head of IT to also tackle that topic as well. For the IT departments, I think the most important topic for them nowadays is what is their effort and what is the resources they do need to again implement and run that solution. And the most helpful thing is just establishing a contact to existing customers. They will really prove that the effort is super low. So the amount of effort is a crucial decision criteria. I don't know whether this is the first one or the second one or the other way around, but then what? The other thing that is as important is the level of qualities that you do offer.

Christian Werling:
And with our background in cybersecurity, we have been luckily able to attract one of the best cybersecurity specialists across Europe. And this great talent is attracting more talent and it's really important to bring these together with our clients. During events, we are inviting people to the office into our SoC. We are doing cyber crisis workshops where our experts run sessions and they are simulating what is happening if you're getting attacked. So we have like 50, 100, sometimes 200 people in one room and they just realize that it's a complete different level of knowledge and expertise that is sitting on the other side. And they would never be able to afford a level of security like that if they wouldn't go for a SaaS pool sub security knowledge sharing solution like us. I think that's important to make that happen in the sales cycle.

Andrew Monaghan:
Yeah, like you were saying though, I mean if I'm, if I'm that person in the team of 10, I'm not the senior person, I'm the doer. I Like the fact that I'm not filling in, you know, 300 page questionnaire or 300 question questionnaire. I'm not trying to, you know, can I say yes, can I say no? We sort of kind of, you know, a lot of gray area between a yes and a no on some of these areas. Right. Depending on how you define things. I, I can see how causes me problems and I can see how the head of it is like, yeah, if you made this simple for me and I mean I The simple thing, 300 questions to 20 questions seems like a pretty, a pretty good, good way to go forward from there.

Christian Werling:
Yeah, totally. But we still think that 20 questions is way too much. Why do we need to ask any question? And that's going back to your approach. When we have our solution installed and we do have the data, why is there any question to ask till necessary? And that's more our thinking and we are not too far away to even reduce the amount of questions even more. So it's like really integrated with a click of a button without further actions and further processes necessary.

Andrew Monaghan:
So at that point it could almost be press this button, deploy, you get the seal of approval, you're good with your cyber insurance, literally. As simple as that. Is that the kind of end goal, kind of closer you can get to it?

Christian Werling:
Technically, yes. However, there still needs to be an underwriter in between from a legal perspective, somebody or like a broker, somebody that is allowed to sell an insurance. So the legal aspect, because it's a regulated market, but we already do have an application so where people can really easily apply for the insurance. What is happening in the background is we do have our own underwriter team that is coordinating together with our broker team with the brokers and we will identify who's the preferred broker of the client. We will provide that application data to the broker, including an estimation and pricing offering already for the broker. And that's the reason why we can then bring that offering via the broker set quickly to the client. But again, I mean people are currently not deciding within minutes for cybersecurity vendor. And I'm kind of happy for sure.

Christian Werling:
I'm not happy because for sure would love to see this stuff signed within a minute. But this is a serious decision to decide who do you trust to give you a cybersecurity protection in which hands and therefore a matter of 48 hours, I think it's still sufficient in 99.9% of the cases.

Andrew Monaghan:
Yeah, that's incredible. Two last questions for you and you brought up regulation. There does The EU give you a single regulation to fulfill or is it country by country, even within the eu?

Christian Werling:
No, for the eu more or less. We do have something. I don't know the specific wording for that because also for me the insurance world is new and sometimes I do remember, but it's like an EU driver's license. For the insurance topics that we do have within Europe, for the UK and for Switzerland, then we would need to do something differently. So once we are offering insurance there, we do need to do an extra step. But because we already did it now with several providers in the background several times and our team has grown, it will also not take us like years. It's a matter of weeks, perhaps single months to to get that driving license more or less for these regions with insurance as well.

Andrew Monaghan:
Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And then final question. I noticed on your LinkedIn tagline it says fun plus effective sales. Tell me more about that.

Christian Werling:
Yeah, I mean I already mentioned what's really fulfilling to me is see when people grow and people do not grow within their comfort zones. So that means that we are running a sales team that is enjoying themselves. We are not taking ourselves too seriously. Hopefully we are really humble and having fun with each other. But on the other hand, we also do want to build the best cyber security sales team not only across Europe, but for sure worldwide. So that's not always easy to be honest, because I think it's easy to be the fun guy that is humble with everybody, like an ice cream seller that is popular to everybody or on the other side be the very harsh and very strict sales professional but not establishing any fun, any humbleness anymore within the organization. But what we are doing is we are trying to get 80, 90, 95% of the sales professionalism, but still let people be themselves, be their version of themselves and enjoying each other to a certain extent. I think it's tough and sometimes it's a struggle.

Christian Werling:
The other way would be easier. But I think that's even more fulfilling because you can still look into the mirror the other day because you're treating people fair with a lot of respect, but on the other hand you're also giving them the opportunity to become a real sales professional and not that stereotype of a salesperson that is sticking in their own behavior and in their roots forever in their career.

Andrew Monaghan:
Well, that's great. I appreciate you joining us, Christian. Fascinating insight into Eye Security. Unique route to market that you don't see very much, if at all. So really interesting to learn about that. If someone wants to get in touch with you and talk some more or talk about open opportunities working in your team. What's the best way to do that?

Christian Werling:
So we have all of our job offerings online. So just apply there or write me a message. So I'm busy, but not as busy for not like seeing when people apply and reach out. So we will reach back to these people immediately.

Andrew Monaghan:
Great. Well, thanks for joining us, Christian.

Christian Werling:
Yeah, thank you.